PostHeaderIcon Fair Questions

In his post below, Troy asked a fair question, yet was somewhat apologetic for its source. In my reply to him, I also felt constrained to distance myself from that less than reliable source. In today’s world gone mad, conspiracy theories are so ubiquitous, and many of their adherents so gullible, strident, and quick to repeat as fact any rumor they hear, that without doing one’s own research, one is loath to trust anything one reads. Yet there is a serious downside risk to this knee-jerk skepticism, of anything that smacks of a conspiracy.

Simply put, conspiracies happen. A lot. Especially the variety that entails coverup of blunders and/or nefarious acts of government officials. Our political history is littered with well-documented examples of them. It is also littered with the unconscionable tragedies that befell Patriots brave enough to try to expose them. Anyone who is awake enough to look around today, should recognize the huge apology this country owes to Joseph McCarthy, for one cogent example. I am reminded of the clever aphorism, ‘Just because I am paranoid, doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get me.’ To automatically condemn anyone asking honest fair questions as a ‘conspiracy nut,’ is as foolhardy as those who automatically believe every rumor that confirms their prejudices.

The advantage this gives to those engaged in coverup is immeasurable. All they have to do to short-circuit an honest inquiry into their mischief, is to visit the websites focused on them, insert ridiculous and easily provable false rumors into the discussions, wait for them to go viral, and then expose them as silly myths. The legions of so-called ‘Obots,’ diligently focused on discrediting all legitimate inquiry, into the now well-documented lies regarding Obama’s personal history, have this technique down to a science. Since few influential citizens in government or media, are willing to risk their careers by being labeled a ‘birther’ or ‘racist’ or ‘conspiracy nut,’ the coverup continues unabated. This in turn so frustrates and infuriates those Patriots having done the necessary research to grasp the truth, that this in and of itself appears to be a massive conspiracy.

In a letter to Bernie Goldberg just one year ago I said this:

Unlike many, I choose not to believe that you, of all people, are part of some media conspiracy to ignore and/or obscure the increasingly obvious fact that Obama is indeed ineligible; and that we are now facing a Constitutional crisis, which could have been easily avoided had, before his election, the Fourth Estate properly done their jobs. Concurring with your frequent observation that the myopic Left-leaning press is not a cabal, but simply creatures of their environs, I suspect a similar handicap; because you undoubtedly share my disdain for wild conspiracy theories, and grow weary of their fanatical proponents.

They appear to waste their time, and try to waste ours, with ever increasingly fantastical claims, which are easily refuted with only a modicum of research. E.g. I am so turned-off by the so-called ‘Truther’ crowd, that my mind immediately snaps shut every time I encounter one. I long ago looked into many of their claims, applied a little critical thinking, and dismissed the subject as silly. The risk, of course, is that there might be a kernel of truth being obscured by the overwhelming nonsense, which my prejudices may now never allow me to discover.

I could readily accept the idea of a coverup of foreknowledge of the plot; but to suggest that GWB et al planned the attack and had demolition charges awaiting it, stretches credulity beyond the limits of my imagination. Perhaps you share a similar prejudice toward some of the dimwits in the so-called ‘Birther’ movement (I shall hereinafter refer to it as the Natural Born Citizen (NBC) controversy), who have propagated some ridiculous and easily refutable nonsense. However, much of it may just be carelessly parroted disinformation, deliberately inserted into the fray to discredit more serious research (E.g. the phony Kenya birth certificate (BC) admittedly produced by an Obama supporter).

A natural born skeptic, I deploy an uncommonly open mind in the process of forming my own opinions, rather than accept uncritically the pronouncements of so-called experts. Once thus earned, I am quite prepared to defend them; but I still endeavor to remain open to the possibility of error, and changing an opinion when new data presents itself. Yet, I am not sure what it would take to get me to waste any further time revisiting the 9/11 Truth conspiracy; so I think I understand where you are coming from.

This admission that I have become close-minded regarding the 9/11 ‘truther’ movement came to mind when I replied to Troys post below. Then it did again, when I encountered a link on another forum, to a rather interesting article speculating on the possibility that the Batty-man massacre was perhaps another false flag operation, run by government agents for similar purposes to the Fast and Furious fiasco. Before I got a chance to read it, my friend Chris had already commented:

The author lost me right at the end when he equated the shooting as being set up the same as 9/11.

With that heads up, had it not been for Troy’s post, I probably wouldn’t have even bothered to follow the link; but I am certainly glad that I did. The first thing I noticed was the pleasing title, “Personal Liberty Digest.” Next, was the subtitle, which was obviously taken from my favorite book, “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World,” by Harry Browne. Then beside that, under “Contributing Editors” was the picture of a personal hero of mine, Robert Ringer, whose latest book I just happen to be currently reading. Clearly, this was not the website of a kook, at least from my perspective, so I was able to read the article unencumbered with trepidation.

It was well-written, thought provoking, and most certainly raised some fair questions in my mind. It ended with:

And this government and others throughout history have used false flag events to advance their agendas. Among them the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building, 9/11 and the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

The FBI is known to create terrorists so it can swoop in to save the day. And governments have lied to their subjects from the beginning of time.

More and more, it looks like the American people are once again victims of their own terrorist government.

I have been well aboard the notion that the OKC bombing was a false flag op since it happened. So, I took the plunge and clicked on the 9/11 link, which had been so off-putting to Chris. It was anything but another ‘truther’ rant, making wild assertions and accusations. It was a nearly year-old article by the same author, Bob Livingston, posing a long list of reasonably fair and thought-provoking questions; most of them deserving of honest answers, which we will likely never get, because to even ask them now designates one as a nut-job. I am not sure what can be done about that; but anyone who values truth and approaches such with an open mind, needs to consider the consequences of allowing oneself to be so easily misdirected.

I should have quit while I was ahead; but I was becoming enamored with Bob’s thinking and writing skills, so out of curiosity I decided to see how he treated the OKC bombing issue. Ugh! It was another very well-written article; but OKC was just a part of it. Entitled, “President Clinton And Tea Party Terrorists” he ripped the Left for trying to paint TEA Party Patriots as terrorists, and discussed Randy Weaver, Waco, and OKC all three. Since I lived through those trying times as an active Patriot and Militia member, revisiting them brought back the angry emotions I experienced as they happened, which I did not need. However, he did a workmanlike job of encapsulating them, so if they aren’t part of your living memory, I recommend reading this excellent piece.

Why stop there? Next I clicked on the FBI link, and was treated to the first off-site article, on Salon of all places, discussing the FBI’s expertise at manufacturing homegrown terrorists, so they can catch them in the act. Even though obviously written by a Left leaning, Jeffersonian, civil libertarian, it was very thought-provoking and posed some very fair questions, for which we should all be demanding answers. I recommend reading it too.

Finally, I tried the last link, which took me to another of Bob’s more recent articles entitled, “The Lies You’re Told.” Yet another fascinating article, covering propaganda and big lies. E.g.:

They have learned that the more lies they tell, the more lies we believe. And the more lies we believe, the more dependent we become. Conversely, the fewer myths, lies and deceptions we succumb to, the less dependent — and, therefore, the freer — we are.

Propaganda is the science of persuasion and mind control. Its purpose is to forge allegiance to a political order or to ensure acceptance — and, therefore, consumption — of a particular product whether it is needed or beneficial. Propaganda victimizes the public by changing and controlling its belief system to the benefit of the political establishment or for the monetary gain of corporate interests and the medical establishment.

I have learned the power of propaganda. I have watched as otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people have had their minds manipulated so that they acted against their own best interests as a result of propaganda. It seems that organized and sophisticated propaganda is able to operate above the threshold of intelligence. In other words, without some imperative to trigger inquiry, very intelligent people buy into lies and myths the same as the general population. The lies and myths then become conventional wisdom. The human mind rarely accepts a challenge to conventional wisdom.

When confronted with a challenge to the established belief system, the mind closes off. When this happens, the individual employs avoidance behavior, writes off the new knowledge as conspiracy theory and labels it as kooky, insane or stupid. The information is then dismissed, never to be considered again, even when the facts support the new knowledge.

[emphasis mine]

What follows is a laundry list of big lies, many of which are uncomfortable to contemplate… all of which probably should be. Read at your own risk, of generating more fair questions in your mind. â—„Daveâ–º

11 Responses to “Fair Questions”

  • Chris says:

    Thought provoking Dave. I’m honored to have stirred this reaction.

    My comment about Mr. Livingston’s quite well written and thought provoking article was more about Mr. Livingston than the theory in the article. See Mr. Livingston made one mistake. He chose to bolster his argument with a false assertion. By stating that because something that didn’t happen happened his hypothesis could easily be true. Or possibly he was trying to bolster his belief in the “truther” theory by illustrating that the theater murders were the same. Either way he reduced his audience to only those who would be willing to believe both or all as a package.

    Back when the “truther” conspiracy was a lot more popular I took a great deal of time researching the possibility. From the logistics of a controlled demolition of buildings that size, to how big an operation a conspiracy of that magnitude would entail. In the end I’m as certain as a person can be that it was as it appears. A hideous attack by Islamic Jihadists.

    On the other hand regarding the theater shooting, what I know of that makes no sense at all. It defies logic. The pieces don’t fit. Of course it was just one nut that staked out JFK so who knows. Sorry. Can’t help sarcasm sometimes.

    You can call something a “conspiracy theory”. Contrary to popular belief that doesn’t mean the theory is untrue. It’s a theory. What makes it true or untrue is researching facts and applying logic to those facts.

    The facts tell me that regarding 9/11 Mr. Livingston hasn’t researched the facts and applied logic. Why would he do that regarding the theater shooting?

    • Fair point, Chris. You’ll get no argument from me regarding the absurd notion of a rigged demolition. If the impact of the planes didn’t knock the buildings over, nothing was going to. Once one understands the way they are constructed, they collapsed the only way they could. The steel didn’t need to liquify, only lose its tensile strength. I am, however, willing to entertain the notion that the whole rigged demolition meme was deliberate disinformation, inserted into the fray to discredit those asking cogent questions, regarding what our government agencies may have known beforehand, which could have thwarted the plot if acted upon.

      I am even enough of a cynic, to consider the possibility of classifying it with Pearl Harbor, to suggest that elements of our government may have been aware of the plot, and deliberately allowed it to be executed to start a so-called war. When a society has no external enemy, citizens start to wonder why they need an expensive government, and become harder to manipulate. With the recent collapse of the Soviet Union, Ike’s Military/Industrial Complex was really under stress, as the Retrogressives were focusing on spending the ‘peace dividend’ on things other than military toys. GWB himself, probably wouldn’t have even known about it. ◄Dave►

      • Greg says:

        As far as 9/11 is concerned, I believe that it was the act of Jihadist Terrorists/Muslim Extremists/ whatever you want to call them. What I don’t believe is the whole truther mentality; the idea that a US President who is, politics aside, presumably a patriot (otherwise he’d have launched the attacks himself and not have wasted his time going in the national spotlight–as well as gotten every country to declare war on us, somehow, been interested in some irrational goal–we’re talking restoration of the Caliphate here, not a Progressive attempt to undermine what you think the foundation of the country is; that’s a rational thought process to do that, mind you, not an insane “kill everyone who disagrees with me” approach. I think you and I can agree that even Progressives love this country; they just have vastly different ideas for it than you do…) [picking up from…presumably a patriot] would kill, voluntarily, thousands of his own people to further some obscure goal of killing someone who is a CIA operative (I’ve heard all types of BS from truthers like that) to be downright offensive and overlooks who we are as Americans, regardless of viewpoint for our country.

        That is to say, Obama could very well be a Marxist and may want to overturn our society; but I think he is still a patriot, driven by his overall vision to do what HE thinks will make this country better. Whether it IS for the better is up to history and the voters to decide.

        All of that aside…I think the biggest problem with 9/11 was the media coverage. The media wanted to sum it up in 1 day and create the story of the century, etc. etc. etc. And they do this ALL the time: anyone who has any question for them at all that goes contrary to the narrative they are trying to spin is hence and heretofore a “Nut.” THis is not conducive to our political system.

        With that said, if the truthers have their questions answered, and they still do not like their answers, they can’t complain as they have had their questions answered and they just do not like what they are hearing. They engage in cognitive dissonance. With people like them, and Fox News pundits (O’Reilly), and to the really hyperpolitical “Everything I say is right and you can’t convince me otherwise” people, it is like talking to a wall.

        I don’t defend GWB for much of anything; I did not like his policy. But I am 100% convinced that his goal in being President was to make this country into what he saw as working better, and hence make it better. Ergo, in my book, he is still a patriot.

        • Oh, sure, Greg; Retrogressives love their country, in the same fashion that Russians love theirs, regardless of what tyrants may currently be claiming dominion over the inhabitants. What they despise, is traditional American culture, which is still revered in Flyover Country. They reject the notion of America being composed of rugged individualists, interacting with their neighbors on a value for value basis as equals in a free market. They are altruists, who place the collective above the individual, and accept the premise that they are just insignificant cogs in a large machine. As such, they believe that each cog deserves an equal amount of grease, just for existing, and have no problem at all with the notion of confiscating the earnings of the productive cogs, for redistribution the the indolent ones. This is by definition, un-Amrican.

          As for Obama himself, I have my doubts. We still do not know definitively where he was born. All we really know is that it wasn’t in the hospital where he claims it happened, on his demonstrably forged birth certificate. He qualifies for a passport in at least four countries, and if my suspicions that he was actually born in Canada are correct, that would make it five. He has never experienced American culture firsthand; because he was born a red diaper baby, to communist revolutionary parents, raised in Indonesia as a Muslim until he was about ten-years-old, and then by his communist grandparents in Hawaii, which at that time was a more Japanese oriented culture. All his time in the mainland has been ensconced in Leftist universities and as a hustler in corrupt big cities. He claimed for years to have been born in Kenya, and both he and his wife refer to Kenya as his ‘home country.’ Thus, I have no reason to think this mystery man even considers himself an American, and he is quite obviously attempting to reduce our economic power and influence in the world. â—„Daveâ–º

      • Chris says:

        Dave, there’s little doubt that people had information that if properly used may have been able to prevent 9/11. The government so much as admitted it sighting “lack of communication” between agencies. Blame the system instead of the people responsible within. Whether the disregard for the information was intentional or not only the few know. It’s possible that what they thought was just going to be a couple plane hijackings blossomed to something they never imagined.

        I have heard the theories about Pearl Harbor. My biggest problem with that is that they didn’t need a war. The US was already kind of busy dancing around with the Nazis. If taking the view of the military complex it could very well have been too much of a good thing that killed the golden goose.

        Even at my slightly advanced age I think I’m still an optimist about overall human nature. I try not to believe the worst of people until proven to me. Wars simply for profit to me is a concept that I find hard to imagine coming from someone with even a shred of humanity. What I can tell you is that I would be less inclined to believe it from say a George W. administration than of the current one. When “the end justifies the means” anything is possible.

        • Chris, when you say, “…something they never imagined.” I recall how astonished I was at the oft-repeated refrain at the time, that nobody could have imagined crashing an airliner into a building. I was a Tom Clancy fan, and his book, “Debt of Honor” ended in a spectacular deliberate suicidal crash of a jetliner into the Capitol building, during a dual session of Congress for the swearing in of a replacement VP, and most of the highest officials of our government were wiped out. It was written in 1994, seven years before 9/11.

          Pearl Harbor was more than a rumor, it has been pretty well proven. I have read whole books on the subject. We had cracked the Japanese code and knew the fleet was coming. Instead of going on alert, our ships all went into port, all aircraft were lined up on the tarmac cheek to jowl like sitting ducks, and most military personnel were given a weekend pass, etc. etc. Yes, Roosevelt needed the provocation. He desperately wanted to go to war on the side of the European Allies; but he could not get the isolationist minded American people behind the idea. It took “the day that will live in infamy” to get the Jacksonians riled up enough to want to go to war.

          You may have advanced in age, but you may also have lived a somewhat sheltered life among the good people of the Adirondacks. I know what it is like to be programmed to think of the enemy as inhuman ‘gooks,’ ‘wogs,’ or ‘terrorists,’ to make the unfortunate necessity of killing them, sometimes wantonly and wholesale, more palatable. I have also lived in foreign cultures that are class based, where my extreme income, by local standards, made me automatically considered a member of the aristocracy. I have employed ‘servants,’ and noticed how much they appreciated being treated with respect as employees by most expat Americans.

          Sadly, I must report from firsthand experience that very many aristocrats look down on lower classes as virtually sub-human, which very much permits their consciences to disregard their ‘humanity.’ Do you think any of the perpetrators of the Fast and Furious fiasco lose a moment’s sleep, over the hundreds of Mexican peasants who have been slaughtered, with the weapons they facilitated getting to the drug lords? One of the most expendable commodities to the elites is sheeple. â—„Daveâ–º

        • Troy says:

          Dave, there’s little doubt that people had information that if properly used may have been able to prevent 9/11. The government so much as admitted it sighting “lack of communication” between agencies.

          I think a very real part of the problem is that the agencies in question over-collect date until they are literally drowning in it. So, vital clues get lost in the “noise”.

          Perhaps if these agencies were scaled back and collected only pertinent data, rather than attempting to monitor every aspect of our lives, they would actually be more able to do the job we are told they are there to do.


  • Troy says:

    Pearl Harbor was more than a rumor, it has been pretty well proven. I have read whole books on the subject. We had cracked the Japanese code and knew the fleet was coming. Instead of going on alert, our ships all went into port, all aircraft were lined up on the tarmac cheek to jowl like sitting ducks, and most military personnel were given a weekend pass, etc. etc.

    Need I remind you that “our ships all went into port” is not accurate. None of the modern Battle Cruisers or the Aircraft Carriers (the real target of the attack) were in port.

    The questionable sinking of ships is a tried and true justification to get the US into wars (the Maine in the Spanish American War, the Lusitania in WWI, then Pearl Harbor in WWII – perhaps others that I don’t know about).


    • Agreed, I stand corrected. Let’s just say there were more than usual in port, and they sure weren’t out on patrol watching for Yamamoto’s alarm clock to arrive. 😉 â—„Daveâ–º

    • Greg says:

      Don’t forget about the Gulf of Tonkin. Johnson (or Kennedy? I’m going with what I think I remember and say Johnson) got us involved in Vietnam by moving a ship ever closer to its territorial waters. Eventually, the Vietnamese had enough, attacked the ship, and we got involved. That is what the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was about.

      • It was Johnson, and it was another big government lie. We fired first, and the supposed second incident a couple of days later, which precipitated the resolution never even happened. 😐 â—„Daveâ–º

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