PostHeaderIcon Abortion and Murder

Abortion is not my issue. Indeed, I often lament the fact that the Politically Correct moralizers of the Left and the Piously Correct moralizers on the Right twist our statesmen in knots making them take a position on an issue that should have nothing to do with our secular government. My own position probably mirrors the majority of Americans at this point, on this morally tricky issue.

During the first trimester, I unequivocally support a woman’s right to choose whether to allow a zygote to become a baby in her womb. There are all manner of morally supportable reasons to terminate an unintended pregnancy; chief among them being rape, incest, known deformities, etc. The state should not have the power to force a woman to birth an unwanted child. By the second trimester, as the fetus is becoming a baby, the moral issue becomes a little more problematic in my mind; but I would still deny the state a say in the matter.

In the third trimester, and increasingly as the viability of the baby to survive outside the womb without medical heroics is developed, the notion of calling the intentional termination of the pregnancy an “abortion,” instead of infanticide, is a bit disingenuous. If one can be charged with double homicide for killing a pregnant woman bearing a viable baby, it would seem to be common sense that anyone involved in deliberately killing just the baby would be guilty of homicide too.

Thus, to my mind, absolutists in either PC camp are wrong. If one can justify a single exception to an absolute position, then other exceptions are just subjective opinions on a very slippery slope. To me, the infamous late term abortionist Dr. George Tiller was one evil SOB, and I’ll lose no sleep over the long overdue “abortion” of his own life. Just because the Politically Correct moralizers have managed to intimidate elected officials into sanctioning the horrendous activities of this serial killer, in no way absolves him of his crimes against humanity; and the world is better off without him.

This of course, brings us to the necessity of dealing with Scott Roeder, the man who aborted Tiller. He too is guilty of murder and society must do its duty and try him for the crime. One presumes that he was prepared to pay the price for his action when he chose the time, place, and manner of it. It will be easy to write him off as a kook, and we can expect the MSM to have a field day demonizing pro-life and “right-wing” extremists, even though spokesmen for all manner of groups of such have condemned Roeder for his action.

Interestingly, because I am neither pro-life nor “right-wing,” I find on reflection that I have some sympathy for Roeder, whom I know almost nothing about. I don’t know how many times in life I have asked the rhetorical question, “How do such evil SOB’s manage to stay alive?” We have all encountered unscrupulous crooks, con men, lawyers, pedophiles, politicians, bureaucrats, and other petty tyrants, etc. who just keep getting away with the most unacceptable behavior and downright harm to innocent honest citizens.

Doesn’t it sometimes seem that the criminal justice system does a better job protecting them from our retribution, than us from their nefarious activities? People have been trying for years to work within the system to stop Tiller from murdering babies moments before they would be born. One does not need to be a Piously Correct moralizer to find his medical practice morally reprehensible.

The wonder is not that some frustrated citizen finally took the law into his own hands; but why it took as long as it did for one to become fed up enough to do it. It wouldn’t do for the prosecution to allow me on his jury; chances are I would nullify it. ◄Dave►

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Roeder

13 Responses to “Abortion and Murder”

  • Denise says:

    I would have to agree with you on this one. One correction on the next to last paragraph “stop Tiller” not Roeder from murdering babies.

  • Mary says:

    There are two situations where a late term abortion is legal in Kansas, the state Tiller practiced in. Either the fetus is developing abnormally or the mother’s health is in danger. Unless you believe you know better than the panel of medical doctors who adhere to the rigors outlined below, I’d say you are spewing garbage. The man was performing a legal service, following professional guidelines, and you not-so-silently cheer for the lunatic who murders him. Once again, logic escapes you, and apparently your dwindling fringe following.

    “65-6703. Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.”

    http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/getStatuteFile.do?number=/65-6703.html

    • ◄Dave► says:

      I have said that abortion is not my issue and I know little about Tiller except what makes national news. It is said that he personally aborted over 60,000 pregnancies. It is my understanding that he was one of only three abortionists in the entire country that performed these late term procedures. They say that the primary reason for this is that the medical community finds almost no cause for an abortion that requires the killing of a viable baby to be performed that late in a pregnancy, and many consider it akin to infanticide, whether it is legal or not. I read your statute and then Googled it. I found a 2007 Complaint signed by the Assistant Attorney General of Kansas, alleging his violation of that statute 19 times in one four month period. It would seem he was not-so-rigorously following professional guidelines, much less the law. 😉

      You can call Roeder a “lunatic,” and perhaps he is; but my post was not meant to be about abortion, which I know is one of your hot buttons. It was a commentary on my understanding of the frustration a man can harbor over the injustice of our legal system protecting evil people from the natural consequences of inhuman and evil acts that harm innocent people. You may consider me a lunatic as well; for I admit that I have encountered such people in my life, who have harmed people I loved, that I would have gladly rid the world of, were it not for government protecting them. ◄Dave►

      • Mary says:

        You said:
        “To me, the infamous late term abortionist Dr. George Tiller was one evil SOB, and I’ll lose no sleep over the long overdue “abortion” of his own life.”

        This is no commentary on a ‘man’s frustration’.

        I call bullshit. Once again you spew your vile nonsense without getting any facts right.

      • 60,000? that would be what, 6 abortions every business day for 30 years? The number seems huge, but I guess if he is only one of a few in the nation, it may be credible.

    • ◄Dave► says:

      Mary, when you have been up to your armpit in a cow in a muddy pasture on a stormy night, working against time to rearrange the misplaced hooves of a calf struggling to be born, in a desperate attempt to save both of them; or up to your elbow in a sow in a farrowing pen, untangling a stuck piglet from a siblings umbilical cord, to save it and the eight others behind it all struggling to be born – get back to me. Then we can rationally discuss whether you thought you were helping a fetus become an offspring, or perhaps like me, you thought of it already as a calf or piglet.

      Then too, you might have gained the perspective necessary to adequately assess whether I had enough “facts” to judge the character of a man who made a career out of reaching into reluctant mothers to kill a child struggling to be born. Surely, his 60,000 cases were not all late term; but just the string of 19 illegal ones in a four month period is enough to tell me all I needed to know about the miscreant.

      And save us the BS about the late term abortionists making the decision not to incubate a preemie. They are being paid to kill them, not save them, and that decision is being made by the reluctant mother. If she wanted to save her child, she would go to a regular OB/GYN, not an abortion clinic. ◄Dave►

      • Mary says:

        You continue to assassinate the reputation of this physician with your prejudice and laziness. Dr. Tiller was quickly acquitted of all charges. Nor was his license to practice medicine ever revoked. Unless you believe you now know more than the State of Kansas and the AMA, I conclude the spread of misinformation borders on libel. You earned your JD where? Your MD where?

        That you continue to speak on this topic, of which you admit you know nothing but tabloid headlines, speaks to your ignorance compounded by arrogance. Why won’t you admit this essay is nothing more than an emotionally laden diatribe, an opinion to which you have a right, but nothing more than an epic logic fail?

        Stop parroting Townhall and develop an original idea. I suggest starting here with the facts.

        http://www.guttmacher.org/sections/abortion.php

        http://evolvinginkansas.blogspot.com/2009/04/dr-george-tiller-acquitted-on-all.html

      • ◄Dave► says:

        Good grief, what utter rubbish! What reputation? The reputation for specializing in a medical procedure that is so heinously inhuman that only two other MD’s in a whole nation of sob sisters clamoring for abortions can bring themselves to perform? Why is it so difficult to understand that I could care less whether he was acquitted of the charges; the fact that he performed them, legally or not, made the man a pariah to at least 75% of Americans – regardless their nominal position on abortion. Kansas could have made him Citizen of the Year, and the AMA could name him Surgeon of the Century, and it wouldn’t change my opinion of him in the slightest.

        I am more interested in learning why the procedure of inducing labor, then moments before birth sticking a pair of scissors in a baby’s brain to avoid the inconvenience of dealing with the ethics of a live birth, doesn’t somehow also offend you? ◄Dave►

    • Sharon W. says:

      fetal abnormality is detected long before the last trimester. in the case of the ‘mother’s health’ no late term ‘mother’ under a Doctor’s care is going to need an abortionist….the baby would need to be delivered one way or another….the difference is killing or saving the baby, contingent upon the desires of the ‘mother’

  • Interesting Mary. So if the fetus is considered viable, and the health of the mother is at risk, why would they kill it rather than put it in one of those incubator thingies?

    ◄Dave►, I’m not sure why you think that your opinion that on the first day of the third trimester this goes from none of the states business to a murder worthy of murderous and forgivable vigilante retaliation should be the law rather than some other arbitrary date in the pregnancy. Your slope is no less slippery than the others. Everyone seems to have an opinion on this, and continuing the argument on a federal level will only lead to the larger problems of society going unchecked. We should let the states argue this one out.

    I can understand the position on this issue of those who believe in souls, gods and tooth fairies, but I’d be interested to hear your rational justification. Is the existence or nonexistence of an unborn fetus going to have a tangible effect on society, or are you just being a piously correct moralizer?

    “One presumes that he was prepared to pay the price for his action when he chose the time, place, and manner of it.” I will be interested to see how he pleads. In a more general sense, I wish more people would take that quote into their thinking. Understanding it leads to a much better understanding of the nature of extremism and would lead to a more functional approach to dealing with terrorism and foreign policy. The crowd who still thinks they can scare people out of their more fanatical beliefs are why we are bogged down with the issues of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Gitmo. It also leads me to believe that those who would be willing to terminate a late term pregnancy would be willing to take more extreme measures were this illegal.

    • Mary says:

      Steel, I’m not a physician so I don’t know why they don’t put it in an incubator ‘thingie’. Do you? I would imagine that’s why they have the panel of docs overseeing these procedures.

      BTW: Viable doesn’t necessarily mean not deformed or brain damaged, etc. The point is that the procedures are legal in the state of Kansas, even if you don’t like it.

  • Volokh just put up an interesting post on the grey areas of such issues. if abortion becomes a little more serious each day of the pregnancy, then why shouldn’t the law do the same?

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